Staff Discussions/Decisions

[Knightmare]

The Staff here has been in discussion for the past few weeks trying to decide on a variety of things. Many of these items that we looked at came from player feedback and we'd like to thank you all for your suggestions and comments.

The current discussions on specific topics are now closed. Here is a summary of the results:

1) Set the bleed threshold to 1/4 max hp instead of 1/2.

2) Make Raise Dead return the creature at just over 1/4 max hp.

3) Link the rest delay into the players difficulty setting. The higher the difficulty the longer the rest delay. At the default setting the rest should be a bit lower than it currently is (like 67%).

4) Combine the Awoken class with the base Sorcerer class.

5) Increase the number of spells sorcerers can cast per day, at least at the lower levels. For starters we can give them a few more level 0 spells.

6) Create some items that enhance sorcerers spellcasting a bit, such as increasing the number of spells they can cast per day. These items should possibly be "unusual" (such as drugs).

7) Give sorcerers some free still-spell feats as they go up in level.

8) Create any missing scroll templates, and make sure they are added to random drops and such.

9) Additional sub-races and/or a system to handle special PCs (vampires, lycanthropes, etc.) will be put on hold and decided/worked upon as time permits.

10) Armor will keep the currently used system for now.

11) Item Level Restrictions will remain on.

[Elmarand]

just one question...

4) Combine the Awoken class with the base Sorcerer class.

If these are combined there will be no expertise classes at all will there?

[Knightmare]

elmarand said:

just one question...

4) Combine the Awoken class with the base Sorcerer class.

If these are combined there will be no expertise classes at all will there?

Not sure what you mean here, could you restate the question?

[Elmarand]

well, if the awoken and sorcerer classes are combined, than there will be no other prestige classes (i had forgotten the name for them) like shadowdancer, assassin, dwarven defender, etc. Am I right or is my computer just playing tricks with me? I can't see any of them except for the Awoken class when I lvl up

[Dolomel]

I think that's because you don't have the requirements.

[Elmarand]

what are the requirements?

[Ima Dufus]

If these are combined there will be no expertise classes at all will there?

You are quite correct. The Awoken (RDD) class was the last of the prestige classes (as it was the only one that was considered to add something that could not be approximated by other systems - at least once everything is finished). Now that we will be combining it with the base sorcerer class there will be no prestige classes.

So the current list of classes a player can choose are:

Barbarian
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Wizard

with Cleric not being selectable at first level, and sorcerers requiring the blooded feat.

I have started looking into combining the Awoken with the Sorcerer, and it looks like it might be necessary to use LetoScript (or maybe an auto-bic program). This is the only way we will be able to make physical changes to the character (such as wings or changes to skin colour). It will also make the ability changes more useful, as otherwise they will only stack up to +12 with effects and items. So I'll download the latest version of LetoScript today and see what will be involved.

Now, back to the other prestige classes...

There are still a bunch of things from some of the prestige classes that need to be re-implemented (either as bonus feat options to the base classes, or as "knowledge" values stored in the players database file). The things I can remember off the top of my head are:

1) Additional shapechanger choices for druids (ala the Shifter class). Probably best done as some additional feats. Note that many of the choices from the shifter selection are entirely inappropriate, and will not be used.

2) Something to emulate the arcane archers ability to create magical arrows. There are actually some far superior packages for this on the vault, so we can probably just grab one of them (or make our own). Will probably just be the ability to take some existing arrows (and maybe bows in some cases) and to add additional properties to them (such as plusses to hit or damage, or OnHit CastSpell properties). Effects probably can't be permanent though (or the system could be abused). Or it could be as simple as just offering additional (cheap) crafting recipes to elven wizards.

3) Fields of Knowledge for wizards. This will let wizards "specialize" in one or more fields, making it easier for them to learn related spells and such. In some cases it may also open up additional abilities (such as allowing those with Necromancy knowledge to craft and use a Necromancers staff - in fact we will probably have one staff per field). This will replace most of the wizard-related prestige classes.


Some things we will almost certainly NOT be implementing:

1) Any form of Hide In Plain Sight.

2) The arcane archers Seeker Arrows, Hail of Arrows, or Arrow of Death.

3) The palemasters Undead Graft and Deathless Master Touch.


Now if I have missed anything, or there is anything anyone would like to add to one of the standard classes, please let me know.

[Dolomel]

Hey! That sucks! Why we don't have any prestiges? They are cool! And you must know FR is the world with the most Prestige classes. Well, I think.

Ok, now gimme the reason why yo on't be implementing them? I bet theres no GOOD reason.

[Ima Dufus]

Ok, now gimme the reason why yo on't be implementing them? I bet theres no GOOD reason.

1) We would need to make trainers for all of them (proper ones I mean, not the stand-ins we have at the moment - though of course we could just get rid of trainers alltogether). So it cuts down on the workload.

2) By moving many of the abilities from prestige classes to options of base classes the 3-class limit is less of a restriction.

3) Most of the "worthwhile" prestige classes need to be heavily modified anyway, so it is easier to add to the base classes.

4) Most of the remaining prestige classes aren't much use anyway.

5) A lot of the stuff you get from prestige classes either doesn't add any real flavour (just stuff like + 1 to hit), or can already be approximated by multi-class combinations or specialized base classes.

6) Having to support less classes makes life a lot easier in many scripts.

and probably some other reasons I can't think of right now.

This wasn't a decision made entirely by myself. I have a friend who likes making assorted character builds, and he went through all the standard prestige classes and a lot of the PRC ones. His conclusion was that most of them were pointless. The stuff that was worthwhile, or just interesting, was noted (along with the notes I made myself). I then put these notes up on the website for anyone to look at and comment on, and didn't get much of a response (as usual). Knightmare talked to me a bit about it, and after I explained a few things he didn't have any problems with getting rid of the prestige classes (or at least that is what he told me ).

Anyway, like I said in the last message, if there is something from a prestige class that you really miss, just post it here and we can talk about adding something similar back in. Also a lot of the stuff that was handled by some PRC prestige classes will still hopefully be added one day as extra systems (such as Vampires, Lycans, Lichs, Disciples, etc..).

[Dolomel]

Ok I understand now, and it's a good way to... minimize the three class restriction.

That means that we will maybe have disciples, thralls, liches, lycan in anothe rupdate later? That would be AWESOME

[Elmarand]

if there is something from a prestige class that you really miss

alright, i'm just going to make a list of things that I think should be included.

Death Attack (If a rogue wants to be more of an assassin than a thief etc, than he should be able to learn the special areas that will paralize someone. I guess this could be implemented after lets say something like the 6d6'th sneak attack for a normal rogue)

Smite Evil/Smite Good (blackguard vs good cleric... evil clerics should get some advantages also, maybe we can make the requirements in the feats for this depending on the characters alignment)

Weapon of Choice: you have two types of fighters - soldiers and weapon masters. I think it should be possible for a character to become an expert in a certain weapon type...not just good at it, but be one with the weapon.

But yeah I see your point, I went through the prestig classes and a lot of them don't really add bonusses, only making you indecisive. I can see how most of these can be roleplayed... even faction added (if for example a PC joins the Harpers, than maybe they can give them equipment that they might need, instead of them changing what type of person they are for that faction.

[Ima Dufus]

That means that we will maybe have disciples, thralls, liches, lycan in anothe rupdate later?

That's the plan.

If you want to see any of these implemented anytime soon though, you should think about what you want for each of these options (in terms of abilities and such), and post your notes here for discussion.

Death Attack (If a rogue wants to be more of an assassin than a thief etc, than he should be able to learn the special areas that will paralize someone.

I think we already have that covered. For starters rogues do up to triple damage if they attack while stealthed. In a lot of cases this can mean instant death for the victim. On top of that they can take the Use Poison feat which allows them to stack poisons onto their attack. So they can add some extra damage (which will also be multiplied), as well as paralysis venom (so even if they don't kill outright the victim might be helpless for follow-ups).

Smite Evil/Smite Good (blackguard vs good cleric... evil clerics should get some advantages also, maybe we can make the requirements in the feats for this depending on the characters alignment)

If we want to allow non-lawful-good paladin types (ie. anti-paladins or blackguards) then we will probably just remove the lawful-good requirement for paladins and try to make their abilities a bit more generic, with some things keyed towards specific alignments. For example the "smite evil" feat would just be renamed to something like "smite foe", and would only work on creatures of the opposing alignment. This way the one feat covers all cases (you can't enable or disable feats based on alignment unfortunately).

By removing the lawful-good restriction I don't mean that the character will be free to do whatever they want. The whole idea with a paladin is that they exemplify some ideal, and conform to a strict code of conduct. So there would still be restrictions. These restrictions could either be alignment based, or keyed to their specific deity (in fact we could probably just use their standing with their deity). If their standing is high they get bonuses to their abilities, if it is low they get penalties, or even lose them completely in some cases (such as the smite never working). To restore their abilities they will need to raise their standing with their deity again (such as by an act of atonement). So basically it will behave the same as for all characters, except that the paladins are treated as "special clients" who get extra abilities above and beyond the norm.

Does that sound reasonable?

Weapon of Choice: you have two types of fighters - soldiers and weapon masters. I think it should be possible for a character to become an expert in a certain weapon type...not just good at it, but be one with the weapon.

We already have the weapon of choice stuff in. Basically as long as you are primarily a fighter type (ie. your BAB is high enough) then you can choose a weapon of choice at level 6 or 7 (providing you have weapon focus, weapon specialization, and are in an appropriate class). This gives you +1 to attack and damage with that weapon, but -2 to attack and damage with all others. Between levels 11 and 14 you have the option of taking the second level in this mastery (Supreme Weapon), making the bonuses +2, with a penalty of -4. On top of that you can take all the standard feats as well relating to that weapon type.

On top of all that I intend to add in a "knowledge" skill for each weapon type. This means that if you train with someone who is a master of a particular weapon you will receive some additional bonuses (still to be decided exatly what they might be). This is to emulate all those kung-fu movies where the hero is a student of a famous sword school or what-not. Of course this relies on making the schools and the NPCs, so whether it ends up in or not depends on if we have time.

I can see how most of these can be roleplayed... even faction added (if for example a PC joins the Harpers, than maybe they can give them equipment that they might need, instead of them changing what type of person they are for that faction

Yes, that's the basic idea. A lot of the prestige classes are just membership of one organization (group) or another. These should have to be contacted in-game, and the PC should have to "go through the motions" to join them, not just pick them at level-up. Any benefits the player receives can then be layered on top of their standard class stuff. Again though, this obviously requires those areas and NPCs to be created first.

[Dolomel]

Ok that's great, and for the blackguard/paladin thing, that is a cool idea Ima.