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Post by Elmarand on Aug 23, 2005 16:57:30 GMT -5
Hey everyone Ive been running around on the server for a few days now and I have some comments. It be nice if a player knew what places he could visit, or what places have been finished, even if its only mosstown, port kir, talltrees and surrounding countryside. Maybe such a list has already been made and I just can't find it. Its pretty easy to get a hold of money... compared to xp that is. A lot of creatures carry about 200 gold around with them. Maybe this on purpose cause everything is so darned expensive, but it leaves me feeling like a rich man very quickly. until of course you die a couple of times... that a big money leech too. Thats one thing I like. Dying takes away money, not xp. seems more realistic to me, and to me a bigger incentive not to die (i've already had to sell a ring of invisibility that I was planning on keeping for later stages). Its not like you lose some of your worldly knowledge once you die. Conversation gets a bit monotone after a while, but I realize that will change with time. The whole sorting table thing is slightly confusing and might need some explanation. What it also prohibits me from doing is selling stuff that I can't identify yet with my current Lore level and don't really need (as in spells when I'm a fighter/ rogue/ ranger/ etc). Or am I missing something? When will the server leave the Demo stage? It might attract a few more players, and would allow for real promotion. I also really like all the little quests you can find around the place. Reminds me a lot of Baldurs Gate II, and that game kicks ass. It allows for entertainment that isn't necessarily hack & slash when there's no one else on. I might find some new things to add to this, but so far so good. The place is wonderfully made, and its clear how much work has gone into it. Keep it coming  |
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Post by Ima Dufus on Aug 24, 2005 1:00:10 GMT -5
I don't think there is such a list. Good idea though. Not that you can really call anywhere "finished", perhaps "playable" would be a better term  I'll look into making a list of areas later. Training and death taxes are indeed big leeches of wealth. On top of that there is also equipment upkeep and the purchasing of consumeables. The cost of these things have to be set close to their current values to match the cost of items appropriate for the level (which in turn matches the ILR rates). So even though you might SEEM rich, you probably aren't See what I mean That's the theory, but since it is such a low priority it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. At least not unless I get some help. No you are not missing something - we are! We need to add some sages around the place that can identify items for a percentage of their value (as compared to the silly fixed value that Bioware uses). I haven't really got around to this because in theory you only need one party member to have a high lore. The problem of course is that at the moment most players are by themselves  My guess is "no time soon". There is just WAY too much that needs to be done first, and so few of us doing it. We will almost certainly have to compromise and open the server up before we are ready for the "main quest". I think it is getting to the point where we will do that pretty much as soon as we have a nice new fast server working. At least that's my guess, Knightmare might have different ideas. I agree, that game is by far the best of its type to date. It is the kind of thing we are aiming for with all the little side-quests, but there are pitifully few at the moment. Hopefully we will slowly be adding more as time goes by. |
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Post by Dolomel on Aug 24, 2005 2:10:43 GMT -5
I think, if I remember well, I said I was always willing to make some conversations... Never had a call for help tho...
Sorry for that, but I think we should have more active builders, builders that could work on a specific place. Specific scripters, specific moddellers e.t.c.
Specific = organized... Organized = doing THAT faster than if you were unorganized... Don,t know if you understand me, I know I can be... wierd sometimes, but that's because my primary language is french.
Well, if your thinking like McDonald, go for it, but it won't be a good result... You do a super GREAT job Ima, we just have to find some helpers and we'll work out the systems faster so we will all have a break. (Well, I'm talking for those who works on their Sh*ts everytime they have free time... I am also admitting that I am not in this category)
But there are some people out there in the NwN community who don't even know about Shattered Souls... Wander in the other PW, there are plenty o' people searching for PWs to help.
Ask people you know if they know any NwN scripter, builder, whatever you need...
I know it is easier said than done, but give it a try (If it has already been tried... maybe updated posts in Bioware forums could arrange things up)
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Post by Ima Dufus on Aug 24, 2005 3:31:04 GMT -5
I think we are talking about the standard "default" conversations here (but I could be wrong). Some of that needs scripting to work, but it also just needs a whole bunch of random sentence parts that can be strung together (based to some degree on properties of the NPC, such as race, gender, alignment, intelligence, class, etc.). So an awful lot of work. If you want to help that would be great.
God, don't apologise. I wasn't trying to have a go at anyone, just stating facts (basically that it is a huge project).
Perhaps I should clarify what I meant a bit...
At the moment the server is still "officially" only open for DMs (despite the fact anyone can enter, and we do have some players). All I am saying is that if we wait for the module to be "ready" before opening to players, it will be a very long wait indeed. So I suspect we will still keep it very much in the DEMO category, but officially open it up to players when the new server is running smoothly. This is on the understanding that things will be in a constant state of flux. At least that way we can start properly advertising to attract players. The official campaign still won't start until we are ready.
But like I said, Knightmare might think differently.
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Post by Ima Dufus on Aug 24, 2005 5:11:26 GMT -5
Here is a (fairly current) list of the areas in the module:
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MOSSTONE ZONE
Mosstone: North Mosstone
Mosstone: The Oak-Father's Boon - Upper Floor (Players can rent the rooms here, but expensive)
Mosstone: The Oak-Father's Boon - Ground Floor (Talk to bard for some background history. Talk to barkeeper for renting rooms.)
Mosstone: A Temple (Has a priest who can cast spells, and has a store. This is also where players spawn when returning from limbo. There are priest and paladin trainers here. Lastly, there is a priest of Helm who can raise dead players, or allow players to join the priesthood.)
Mosstone: A Trader's Tent (There is a rogue store here, as well as a rogue trainer.)
Mosstone: Steeleye's Armory (A weapons and armour store.)
Mosstone: Ms. Griley's General Store (A general store.)
Mosstone: A Marid's Tent (A wizards/magical items store. Also has item recharging facilities.)
Mosstone: Delilah's House (Related to one of the ranger quests.)
Mosstone: South Mosstone
Mosstone: Kayle's Shop (A basic items store, such as clothing. Should have some quests, but currently disabled.)
Mosstone: The Drover's Last Drink (Basic inn. Talk to the barkeep to rent rooms.)
Mosstone: The Drover's Last Drink 2nd Floor (Players can rent these rooms. Fairly cheap.)
Mosstone: The Town Guard Barracks (Should have some quests eventually, but currently nothing. There are fighter and barbarian trainers here.)
Mosstone: Andrik's Leather Goods (Basic leather goods/archer store. You can sell pelts to Andrik for good prices.)
Mosstone: A Wizards Tower (Wizard store. There are trainers for wizards and sorcerers here. You can also buy a green dimension door permit. Will also have some reagant quests soon.)
Kobold Caves (Basic dungeon for 1st level characters. Avoid the giant crab. Needs more placeables and items. Second level not yet done.)
Orc Castle (Basic dungeon for 1st level characters. Second level not yet done.)
Mosstone: The Archdruid's Grove
Mosstone: The Archdruid's Hall (You can collect herbs for the Archdruid. He also has some other quests. There are druid and ranger trainers here.)
Mosstone: A Druid's Store (Basic druid/ranger store.)
Mosstone: The Ranger Lodge (Don't forget to talk to the guy in the watchtower for his quest.)
Mosstone: The Ranger Lodge Interior (Several rangers here, each with a small quest. They can all train you if they like you enough, at least at low levels, each with combat training vs. a racial type.)
Mosstone: Jungle (The two most dangerous ranger quests use this area. Tread carefully.)
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WEALDATH ZONE
Wealdath: Mosstone Northeast (There are some animals about, so be careful. You can find some herbs here.)
Wealdath: Cave (Cave with wolves in it. You can skin them for their pelts.)
Wealdath: Cave (Cave with leopards in it. You can skin them for their pelts.)
Wealdath: Cave (Cave with bears in it. You can skin them for their pelts.)
Wealdath: Mosstone East (There are some animals about, so be careful. You can find some herbs here.)
Wealdath: Cave (This leads to the underdark, after several levels. Gets very dangerous, so be careful.)
Wealdath: Cave
Wealdath: Cave
Wealdath: Cave
Wealdath: Cave
Wealdath: Cave
Wealdath: The Burning Wood (Related to a quest from the Archdruid. Will only be available if you are on that quest. For levels 5 to 10, or thereabouts.)
Hack 'n' Slash Dungeon (Has a Druid Circle. Basic tunnel of fun dungeon. Good for picking up XP and GP. Take it slow though. Kobolds, Goblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Spiders, Krenshar, Ogres.)
Dungeon: Level 1 (Goblins, Kobolds, Orcs, Bugbears, Gnolls, Lizardmen, Skeletons, Shapechangers, Beetles.)
Dungeon: Hut (Lizardmen.)
Dungeon: Hut (Lizardmen.)
Dungeon: Level 2 (Minotaurs, Orcs, Trolls, Succubi, Skeletons.)
Dungeon: Level 3 (Slaadi, Halflings, Ogres, Mindflayers, Mephits, Hook Horrors, Umber Hulks.)
Dungeon: Level 4 (Beholders, Dragons.)
Dungeon: Final Level (It's a surprise.)
Wealdath: Deep Woods (There are some animals about, so be careful. You can find some herbs here.)
Deep Wealdath: Cave (Owlbears.)
Deep Wealdath: Cave
Deep Wealdath: Cave
Wealdath: Portal (Links to the portal outside Talltrees.)
Fairy Tree: Main Hall (Only lowish level characters will be given this quest.)
Fairy Tree: Lower Branches (Nothing in it. Is not in next version.)
Fairy Tree: Upper Branches (Sleeping quarters. Currently empty.)
Fairy Tree: Roots (Big fight with beetles.)
Fairy Tree: Cavern of the Nest (Beetle lair.)
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TALLTREES ZONE
Talltrees: Ground Level (Has a Druid Circle.)
Talltrees: Portal (Links to portal in deep Wealdath.)
Talltrees: Tent
Talltrees: Tent
Talltrees: Canopy Level (Currently disabled. Needs redoing - way too many placeables at the moment.)
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PORT KIR ZONE
Port Kir: Crossroads (No hostiles at the moment.)
Port Kir: South of Crossroads (No hostiles at the moment.)
Nevermores: South (Trolls. Very nasty unless you are prepared. Not for lower levels.)
Nevermores: North (More trolls. Will eventually have a few dungeons hanging off it.)
Mount Glory: Foothills (This will be related to a paladin quest started in Port Kir. Currently empty. Remaining areas need to be done.)
Port Kir: Eastern Coastline (A few bugs about, so be careful.)
Giant Ant Nest (Just XP at the moment. Will soon be linked to reagent quests.)
Port Kir: Eastern Coastline 2 (Pretty much empty at the moment. Has a Druid Circle.)
Port Kir: The Main Gates
Port Kir: Sedrick's Inn
Port Kir: Alchemist Shop (Basic potion and gem store. Will have reagent quest soon.)
Port Kir: Ranger Shop (Basic ranger store.)
Port Kir: Mage Tower - Level 1
Port Kir: Mage Tower - Level 2
Port Kir: Mage Tower - Level 3
Port Kir: Mage Tower - Level 4
Port Kir: Mage Tower - Level 5
Port Kir: The Docks
Port Kir: Berringer's Shipyard
Port Kir: The Dockside Tavern
Port Kir: Helm's Temple (Will have a paladin holy order soon, that PCs will be able to join. Will be starting point for some quests.)
Port Kir: Gorin's Arms and Armor
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STARSPIRE MOUNTAINS ZONE
Starspire Penninsula: Foothills
Starspire Penninsula: Foothills Cave
Starspire Penninsula: Foothills Cave
Starspire Penninsula: Foothills Cave
Starspire Penninsula: Suspension Bridge
St. Ramedar: Main Gates
St. Ramedar: Monestary
St. Ramedar: Entry Level
St. Ramedar: Prisoner Level 1
St. Ramedar: Prisoner Level 2
Starspire Penninsula: Stone Bridge
Starspire Penninsula: Quarry
Starspire Penninsula: Archway
Starspire Penninsula: Dwarven Ruins
Dwarven Ruins: Crypts
Dwarven Ruins: Armory Secret Room
Dwarven Ruins: Underground Building
Dwarven Ruins: Ruined Tower
Dwarven Ruins: Ruined Tower Basement
###Dwarven Ruins: Pit Bridge
###Dwarven Ruins: Main Hall
###Dwarven Ruins: Underground Building
km_dwrfrnsbarracks
Starspire Penninsula: Mines Area
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Mines
Starspire Penninsula: Cave
Starspire Penninsula: Cave
Starspire Penninsula: Cave
Starspire Penninsula: Cave
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OTHER AREAS
Limbo (The place you go when you die.)
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PLAYER GUILDS/HOMES
Academy Arcanum: First Floor
Academy Arcanum: Basement
Academy Arcanum: Council Chambers
The Guardians: Main Floor
The Guardians: Library - Basement
The Guardians: Sleeping Quarters
The Ladies: Guild House
Port Kir: Zal's Home
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DM-ONLY AREAS
DM HOUSE (Basic area for DMs to get together and chat.)
MOSSTONE ZONE (This will eventually probably have some placeables you can use to configure some things relating to Mosstone. At the moment it just has some control waypoints and items, so no need to go there. DO NOT REMOVE ITEMS FROM THE CHEST CREATURE.)
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DM AND PLAYER AREAS
DM FUNZONE (An area that DMs can use for whatever they want.)
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NO-GO AREAS (Even for DMs)
FACTORY (Used to spawn in creatures. Avoid.)
REAL STORE AREA (Has all of the stores used by various systems, such as random treasure, re-stock stores, and standard stores. Avoid.)
OUT OF BOUNDS
Knightmare will have to comment about some of those I am not very familiar with. Note that the indentation roughly gives the heirarchy of the areas. Items at one level come off of the level above. Currently the zones are linked by straight transitions, but this will be changing soon, so you will be able to travel a bit more freely between each zone. At the moment the Wealdath (from Archdruid's Grove) and Port Kir (from South Mosstone) zones are linked to the Mosstone zone, and the Starspire Peninsula zone is linked to the Port Kir zone (from the South of Crossroads area). The Talltrees zone can currently only be reached via portal (from off the Deep Wealdath area). I'll try to get a cleaned up version of this on the website after the next update. |
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Post by Dolomel on Aug 24, 2005 12:48:00 GMT -5
I would be pleased in writing some convo's... That's something I really like doing in the toolset and I like to write. But I can't really script...sorry.
I suggest we do not ''officially' make the PW Live before we have good conversations, some more areas (Finished and top notch areas I mean...), the basic systems... also, I propose we make alot of static quest, this will enhance roleplaying and players won't have to hack,N,slash when alone on server. That is something that missed in PW's like ALFA, statics.
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Post by Elmarand on Aug 24, 2005 18:12:08 GMT -5
First, I wouldn't mind writing some convo's either. Once in a while I can also toss out some areas that are needed.
Second, when's the next update? just out of curiousity, and what are you hoping to include?
Third, I noticed something else. When two players are partied, but one player is in another area gathering loot, the other player also gets loot.
Another strange thing that happened to me today was that I was standing in limbo, and was slowly gaining xp. Esteten pms me and tells me that he is also getting some xp from me.
Don't know if either of these things are intentional, but I found them slightly odd.
Here's something I saw implemented in another PW. Upon entering the mod everyone is invited into one party. What then happens is these people can chat when on the other side of the world without using the shout channel, leaving it to the DMs. If you don't want to join the party you just ignore the invitation, or if the discussion in party chat is getting to heated, you can always leave said party. If it gets in the way of RP you can always form a seperate party. Its a neat way of talking OOC.
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Post by Ima Dufus on Aug 25, 2005 3:37:13 GMT -5
By all means make some conversations. Either make a new NPC if you need to, or better yet pick an existing one. Most of the current ones have little or no personal dialogue (most are just standard stores).
However, don't use the standard conversation editor please. We are trying to use another scripted system, that has many benefits.
Probably the easiest way to do it would be to lay out the conversation in a text file, and then just send it to me with a note as to who it needs to be attached to. I can then knock up the equivalent script, and send you a copy in case you want to make some minor modifications.
Although there will certainly be some new areas we will need, at the moment it would probably be more useful if you could take some of the existing areas and flesh them out (adding NPCs, and maybe sprucing the look up a bit with placeables and lighting). What sort of areas are you most interested in (towns, dungeons, wilderness, town interiors, etc.)?
There might be another minor update soon, but maybe not. At the moment some of the recent changes I have made require changes to the ss_base.hak file for players. Before releasing those changes there are a whole bunch of other things that need to be done as well. So the chances are it will be weeks before I can do that. That's just me though, the stuff Knightmare and others are doing can probably be updated independently.
That is intentional. There are perfectly legitimate reasons why party members may be in different areas (even very seperated ones), so it wouldn't be fair to deny them their share of gold.
Again that is functioning as expected. If players in limbo don't get party XP then they are essentialy suffering an XP penalty for death, which we are trying to avoid. That sort of system just makes the players who are having a hard time even weaker compared to the rest of their party, which makes it easier for them to die again, which makes them even weaker, ...
As for both of you getting XP without killing anything...
That is either a bug, or some creatures are being killed by a third party (such as NPCs) and you are considered "responsible". For example, if you draw enemies onto the Iron Golems at the start of the Hack'n'Slash dungeon you should still get the XP for the kill. Again, this is intentional behaviour.
If you are pretty sure that something like this wasn't happening, and you were getting XP even though nothing was being killed, then let me know.
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Post by Dolomel on Aug 25, 2005 12:04:20 GMT -5
I'm up for it, I'll pick some NPC's that don't have extremely nice convo's that I think are important to finish first
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Post by Elmarand on Aug 26, 2005 21:56:04 GMT -5
OK, I'm gonna stick to this thread so that I don't litter the forum...
The whole fairy tree being attacked by insects plot is really neat... although a tad hard.
This could be intended, but it remains slightly disturbing: I think I can skin humans. I bought a skinning knife from the leather merchant and am just carying it around. When I killed those bandits in the Mosstown Jungle and pilfered their corpses I came away with a bunch of those crafting material components.
On a lighter note, I like the 'you have died (insert number here) times, loser.' It actually makes me feel rather guilty.
I personally think all the areas look great, and its obvious that there has been a lot of work put into them. They looker better and a lot more fleshed out than several other PWs where they consist of only the bare essentials. I am willing to do some towns (I still have an incomplete version of Cape Velen lying around, don't know whether you want me to finish that off)
Also, what are we allowed to use in the convo's as rumors? The story of Murann? more personal things about townsfolk? bandit raids to the north? etc...
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Post by Knightmare on Aug 26, 2005 23:01:15 GMT -5
OK, I'm gonna stick to this thread so that I don't litter the forum... The whole fairy tree being attacked by insects plot is really neat... although a tad hard. Credit goes to Ima for this quest. Like I said, maybe you are getting their armor or some such. Ima would be the best one to explain here. LOL. Another of Ima's additions. Sammi would be the best to answer this (I hope she has an answer anyways ). After your time away (btw glad to see you've returned) I put Cape Velen back up on the list for being built. Perhaps you can get together with the person currently working on it (think it might be Genesis). Yes, yes, yes, etc. Best would be to have an actual quest associated with the rumors. |
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Post by Ima Dufus on Aug 29, 2005 2:14:38 GMT -5
Actually credit goes to Quillmaster for that one: nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=prefabs.Detail&id=630I just grabbed it from the vault, cleaned up/adapted a few things, and then inserted it into the Wealdath area. There are still a few things that need to be changed (such as the reward item), but it at least mostly works. BTW, I did change this area a bit in the last update, so if you happened to try it before that it was a fair bit harder. The main problem was that all of the beetle encounters were set to continuous respawn. They are now set to single-shot (but will obviously be reset when the areas are "cleaned up"). My group went through this area last friday in fact (to test out the changes), and it was difficult but quite doable. It was a group of 3 level 3 characters (but the encounters do scale, so any level small group could probably do it). I need to change the XP and GP reward to also scale, since at the moment it is pretty minimal. You actually have to use the skinning knife on a creatures cropse to get its effect. Simply carrying it around won't do anything. At the moment there are only a few creatures it will work on, but the list will increase over time. Currently it is only wolves, krenshar, panthers, owlbears, black bears, and crag cats (IIRC). The reason you are getting the raw armour parts from the humans is because we have a system in place to degrade basic suits of armour into their crafting components. This is mainly to reduce the amount of money you get from pilfering human(oid) corpses, since armour is quite expensive. It is explained away by the fact that in most cases armour really needs to be fitted to an individual. So instead of giving completed suits, you get components that you can craft back into full suits. If nothing else it makes the crafting skills a little more worthwhile (barely). He-he. I forgot that was still in there. As you guessed it was intended to give my players a small psychological incentive not to die. Absolutely! I actually really liked the Velen areas, particularly the captains garden (?) area. I am working on a system at the moment to link all of our towns and such together, so we can link Velen in whenever you are ready. |
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Post by Elmarand on Sept 3, 2005 12:40:36 GMT -5
OK, new update... this one more along the lines of building.
I placed a dead zombie corpse placeable, and when I tested the module it rose. But not just one rose... about 20 undead were attacking (this is a lvl 40 char i was testing with) me from this one corpse... this was slightly odd. Then I started killing em but by the time that I had killed the last one there the first ones had already risen. It turned into the never ending battle of doom.
One problem (I believe its a problem, but I'm just a mortal builder ;D) with the spawn system, is when a higher lvl character runs through an area where lower lvls are meant to roam, he will spawn about 20 creatures and then get blamed for lag... I guess he shouldn't be in the lower lvl area but this is a RPG server, he should be allowed to go anywhere he wants if its on his route. It is also slightly unrealistic to run into a nest of about 20 bandits 'hideing out' in the sewers. how did these guys not get noticed? Basically in short I would suggest the spawn limit be around 10, not 20... just an idea.
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Post by Ima Dufus on Sept 5, 2005 0:21:45 GMT -5
That's just the dynamic balancing stuff, which is still switched on. In this case the standard script that spawns the zombie should probably be changed to spawn a zombie of an appropriate level for the PC (well, as best it can anyway). I'll add it to the list of things to fix. In case you don't know, corporeal undead aren't killed when they fall to the ground (just "resting"), you need to destroy their corpse or they will rise again (by hacking to pieces, or blowing them up, or whatever). In the case of large hordes you will probably have to start doing this when there are others still attacking you, which is what makes it challenging. Of course it is easier in larger parties. I used to have a limit on the CR difference, so if the spawn is never going to be challenging, even with 21 creatures, it wouldn't bother spawning extras. However, I then changed the system so that lower level creatures can be boosted or replaced with tougher versions. This complicates things to the point where it is a little hard to tell beforehand whether it can be brought up to a challenging level or not. Not sure if there is all that much I can do about this, short of rethinking the area clean-up methodology. Just lucky I guess The problem with this is that some people really enjoy killing large groups. Also in many cases 10 isn't much of a challenge (hell in many cases 21 isnt either). Also there are some types of creatures (kobolds, goblins, zombies, etc..) that are supposed to roam about in large gangs. Dropping it to 15 might be a reasonable compromise, since that is still a fairly large group. |
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Post by Elmarand on Sept 5, 2005 7:09:54 GMT -5
I think I knew this actually *looks slightly sheepish.*  It brings undead to a completely different level of difficulty... what happens to Liches? meh, I don't think you should have to rethink it, we're not planning to have that many lvl 40s running around anyway eh?  I guess it does make sense to have some large groups... especially of those pesky goblins kobolds etc, and like I said a bit earlier... lvl 40s *shrug* I don't know maybe they have the same problem on all RPG servers, never been a lvl 40 on an RPG |
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I'll look into making a list of areas later.
It brings undead to a completely different level of difficulty... what happens to Liches?